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Refuting the Lies Pushed by Health Care Reform Opponents
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Anyone who has read a newspaper, seen a television report or attended a health care reform event has to be amazed at some of the outrageous, bizarre and just off-the-charts lies being spouted about health care reform.
Health care reform, according to the ranters and ragers, will make private insurance illegal, socialize medicine, convene death panels to kill grandma and give undocumented aliens Mayo Clinic quality care. And those are just a few of the delusional claims.
The folks at Media Matters have identified 14 of the most cited (including those above) health care reform myths and lies that opponents are spreading, including the crazed fringe and even mainstream Republicans, media outlets and health care industry groups.
Here are a few—click here for the entire list.
- Myth: There is no health care crisis and the current system works fine.
- Reality: Some 45 million have no health insurance at all and 27 million are underinsured and insurance companies routinely restrict and deny coverage.
- Myth: Health care reform will establish “death panels” and promote euthanasia.
- Reality: The proposed health care reform plan allows for voluntary advance care planning, including living wills, health care proxies and other issues. NOT death panels.
- Myth: Health care reform will outlaw private health insurance.
- Reality: It’s a flat-out lie. There is nothing in either House or Senate bill that outlaws, bans or otherwise prohibits private health care insurance.
Don’t forget to check out Media Matters’ Myth #13, “Prominent opponents of health care reform are credible.” It’s a doozy.
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21 Comments
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We need to do more than just counter the lies about health care reform. We need to show some passion. We need to counter the rallies and protests with our own. We need to march.
There’s been a “Million Man March” for so many causes over the years, but none for health care. The time for that march is now:
More info:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106×33587
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The insane babble from the radical right wingers is bound to make anything that Obama and the Democrats say sound reasonable and worth supporting.
But that is not the case. Any “health care reform” discussions that exclude “single payer” is bound to fail the needs of the majority of people iwho think “single-payer” is best.
The Ovama gang and the corporte controlled Democrats are determined to maintain the corporte profits of privatized health care by ramming through Congress this year control some “reform” proposal. Single payer is not allowed a “place at the table” in Senate hearings. The corportate controlled mass media
forever frames the discussion between the lunatic right and the “sensible” “health care reform” of Obama.
The “health care reform” will cost the people of this twice as much as single-payer, and will, once implemented, still exclude millions of people from affordable health care.
It is really a tragedy for working people that the AFL-CIO dioes not lead the way in this most critical legislation.
Support for “single-payer” by the AFL-CIO, by “drawing the line” on this question”, would alone restorn the AFL-CIO and the labor movement to a leadership position. A militant stand on this question, in which 70 oer cent of the public and over 500 union locals back “single-payer”, could make the
critical difference.
MEDICARE IS SINGLE-PAYER INSURANCE FOR EVERYONE OVER 65!
IT IS WORKING WELL AND IS THE COUNTRY CAN WELL AFFORD IT. PRIVATIZED HEALTH INSURANCE FOR PEOPLE OVER 65 IS UNAFFORDABLE FOR MOST SENIORS.
SOCIAL SECURITY IS WORKING WELL BUT OBAMA IS NOW THREATENING SOCIAL SECURITY AS “ENTITLEMENTS” THAT COST TOO MUCH!
THIS CORRUPT ATTACK ON THE LIVING STANDARDS AND VERY LIVES OF WORKING PEOPLE MUST BE CHALLENGED AND MUST BE STOPPED!
THE WARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST WAGED FOR PROFIT FOR THE OIL COMPANIES, THE MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, ETC. DO NOTHING FOR THE AMERICAN BUT COST HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF FUNDS NOW NEEDED BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO SECURE THIER HEALTHCARE, PUBLIC EDUCATION, MAINTAIN SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICATE ETC.ETC.
WE NEED TO END ALL FOREIGN WARS….NOW! SHUT DOWN THE 700 PLUS MILITARY BASES, CUT THE MILITARY BUDGET BY FIFTY PERCENT.
END THE BAILOUTS TO CORRUPT GANGSTER CAPITALISM. NATIONALIZE THE BANKS. NATIONALIZE THE ENTIRE ENERGY INDUSTRY (oil, gas, nuclear, etc.) to develop sustainable energy, to end pollution that is causing Global Warming, etc.
THERE IS NO MYSTERY ABOUT WHAT MUST BE DONE. BUT THERE IS NO ORGANIZED OPPOSITION AMONG WORKING PEOPLE TO MAKE IT HAPPEND. THE RUSH TO ECONOMIC IMPOVERISHMENT OF WORKING PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES MUST END NOW.
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MEDICARE IS SINGLE-PAYER INSURANCE FOR EVERYONE OVER 65!
IT IS WORKING WELL AND IS THE COUNTRY CAN WELL AFFORD IT. PRIVATIZED HEALTH INSURANCE FOR PEOPLE OVER 65 IS UNAFFORDABLE FOR MOST SENIORS.
SOCIAL SECURITY IS WORKING WELL BUT OBAMA IS NOW THREATENING SOCIAL SECURITY AS “ENTITLEMENTS” THAT COST TOO MUCH!
THIS CORRUPT ATTACK ON THE LIVING STANDARDS AND VERY LIVES OF WORKING PEOPLE MUST BE CHALLENGED AND MUST BE STOPPED!
THE WARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST WAGED FOR PROFIT FOR THE OIL COMPANIES, THE MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, ETC. DO NOTHING FOR THE AMERICAN BUT COST HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF FUNDS NOW NEEDED BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO SECURE THIER HEALTHCARE, PUBLIC EDUCATION, MAINTAIN SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICATE ETC.ETC.
WE NEED TO END ALL FOREIGN WARS….NOW! SHUT DOWN THE 700 PLUS MILITARY BASES, CUT THE MILITARY BUDGET BY FIFTY PERCENT.
END THE BAILOUTS TO CORRUPT GANGSTER CAPITALISM. NATIONALIZE THE BANKS. NATIONALIZE THE ENTIRE ENERGY INDUSTRY (oil, gas, nuclear, etc.) to develop sustainable energy, to end pollution that is causing Global Warming, etc.
THERE IS NO MYSTERY ABOUT WHAT MUST BE DONE. BUT THERE IS NO ORGANIZED OPPOSITION AMONG WORKING PEOPLE TO MAKE IT HAPPEND. THE RUSH TO ECONOMIC IMPOVERISHMENT OF WORKING PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES MUST END NOW.
It is great to see the American people standing up against the government. We don’t need these elitists making anymore decisions on how we live our lives. Can’t wait for the next rally against this health care plan.
Here is an excellent article on “Health care reform” from Chris Hedges in support of “single payer”.
Published on Monday, August 24, 2009 by TruthDig.com
This Isn’t Reform, It’s Robbery
by Chris Hedges
Percentage change since 2002 in average premiums paid to large US health-insurance companies: +87%
Percentage change in the profits of the top ten insurance companies: +428%
Chances that an American bankrupted by medical bills has health insurance: 7 in 10
—Harper’s Index, September 2009
Capitalists, as my friend Father Michael Doyle says, should never be allowed near a health care system. They hold sick children hostage as they force parents to bankrupt themselves in the desperate scramble to pay for medical care. The sick do not have a choice. Medical care is not a consumable good. We can choose to buy a used car or a new car, shop at a boutique or a thrift store, but there is no choice between illness and health. And any debate about health care must acknowledge that the for-profit health care industry is the problem and must be destroyed. This is an industry that hires doctors and analysts to deny care to patients in order to increase profits. It is an industry that causes half of all bankruptcies. And the 20,000 Americans who died last year because they did not receive adequate care condemn these corporations as complicit in murder.
Here is the link to the full article:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/08/24-1
Jerry – Medicare is more than broke! So how can you say it is working well? It is like most federal government ran things (i.e., for our “welfare”) – it is way more expensive than thought. No business could run that way for long, but because it’s the government, they can just print more money or raise taxes on somebody. (And yes, the big middle class tax rate hike will come – no other way to keep doing this! We can only tax the rich, and not keep 50% of the rest of us paying no income taxes, for so long.)
One lie about another “lie” is the numbers of uninsured. Look more closely as to how this 45M uninsured breaks down. Even though it has been shown many, many, many times that this number is not a good reflection (i.e., illegals, young people who don’t care to have insurance, etc.), it is always put out there as a solid fact and as a basis to say there is a major crises. Do we need to get some things in place, and maybe take other things out of the way to lower costs? For sure! But a major crisis that is absolutely imperative to address immediately? I don’t really think that is the case when the numbers are investigated more closely. Am I all out in “right field” here?
And I always have to bring up tort reform. If everything is supposedly on the table in this discussion, why is it that some politicians have said it is off the table? I suspect a special interest may be at the root of this omission.
Again, the right wants to severely condemn this before they know all the facts; the left zealously supports it before they know all the facts. And shall the twain ever meet . . . ?
TO: “Right on the Left”- Health care in the US is outrageously overpriced because it is treated as a commodity to be sold, instead of a public service to be provided to those who need it.
What if the fire department operated like health care? You would have competing companies wanting to provide fire protection only to those wealthy enough to afford it and those whose houses are least likely to catch fire. When you reached the limit of your fire protection coverage, they would roll up the hoses and let it burn. If you’ve ever had a fire, they would cancel your fire protection. Millions of people’s homes and businesses would go up in flames. Kind of like what’s happening now with health care.
My wife and I were paying more than $1000/month for coverage from Kaiser Permenente, the K-Mart of health care. We are now health care refugees living in Mexico, where we are covered by the Mexican National Health Insurance plan for less than $500 for both of us for the whole year (1/2 of 1 month’s premium for Kaiser). The care is excellent and caring. The medical facilities are clean, modern, and full of equipment that would put Kaiser to shame. Americans who reject a public option (I actually favor Single Payer) are willfully ignorant fools who can’t be bothered to notice that the rest of the world laughs at us for our antics over what they take for granted: easy, inexpensive access to quality care.
WE NEED THE SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM OF HEALTH CARE, NOT INSURANCE; HEALTH INSURANCE IS NOT HEALTH CARE. THESE CORPORATE IDIOTS AND ZEALOTS OF THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY HAVE FOR TOO LONG BEEN DENYING THE HUMAN RIGHT OF THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS TO ADEQUATE HEALTH CARE. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS BEHIND MOST OF THIS ALONG WITH COHORTS LIKE LIEBERMAN. THESE PEOPLE MUST BE STOPPED! THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT PATRIOTS! THESE PEOPLE ARE BENT ON THE DESTRUCTION OF OUR GREAT NATION FOR SAKE OF THEIR DEEP POCKETS, AND COULD CARE LESS ABOUT MUCH ELSE.
It’s over. The deals have been made, behind our backs as usual, and we’re the LOSERS, as usual. Who wins? Why, the insurance and drug racketeers, that’s who.
NOTHING will change without action on the part of our people, and we seem to be fresh out of that.
The President just stated that he does not want government regulated healthcare. This is ensuring that the vested interest groups stay in control of OUR healthcare system. The Fox will continue running the hen house!!
We must establish the reality. Healthcare is not a supply and demand economic model. We are not qualified to know what we need and we do not have the ability or information to make an informed buying decision.
Situations like Lasik eye and cosmetic surgeries are different. We make that decision on whether we need them and we have the time and information to make an informed decision on who to use.
If you are in a car crash and unconscious and the para-medic makes the decision to airlift you out, you cannot argue with the para-medic or negotiate the cost of the helicopter or the hospital that you will be sent to.
That is why every other country in the world’s Universal Healthcare is GOVERNMENT REGULATED to some degree to protect the people from predatory practices.
Apart from obscene costs, the essential infrastructure of healthcare such as trauma centers and primary care physicians is not in place. This is because they are not profitable or cannot make a living because of liability insurance costs.
An estimated 700 people a year are dying in Georgia because they cannot get to a trauma center in time. We have to have a state by state plan for an integrated healthcare system the gives access as well as cost effective coverage.
What is the point of the Government setting prices for Medicaid and Medicare services when the doctors just refuse to participate.
Nearly 50% of the people in this country are on government provided healthcare when you add all the government employees, Armed forces, POLITICIANS, Medicaid and Medicare participants and prisoners up. This One Trillion of your tax dollars providing healthcare that any other major country would provide for HALF the cost. That would be $500 bn for Education and Social Services that are being decimated now.
We ARE establishing government regulation for the Financial Industry we must have it in healthcare. We must demand this as every other major country has done. None of the politicians have our interests at heart. We must issue a Peoples Mandate to them, there is still room for a For Profit part of the System, as many other countries have. We owe it to our children and loved ones to save them from this system of unnecessary suffering and financial destruction.
TO: Right on the Left… and all others who fall for the BIG LIES of corporate controlled Obama and the corporate owned mass media!
“Medicare is more than broke! So how can you say it is working well?”
Medicare is working as well as possible since essential funding is annually being cut severely by corporate controlled Congress. Medicare is “more than broke” for the same reason that the not-for-profit public school systems nationally are being destroyed because “there is not enough” money. In California, several hundred thousand home care health workers, thousands of school teachers, payroll cuts of essential state workers, etc. are taking place, always for the lament “not enough money”.
Why is there “not enough money” to fund the essential needs of the people? Because the most powerful corporate interests, who control both Republican and Democratic Parties, have for decades diverted tax payer money away from the public good to private profits. Neither party supports these public needs, as all members of Congress and both parties, heavily campaign financed for these corporate interests, as the corporations have literally taken over Congress.
What are these “special interests” that control Congress??
1. WAR AND MILITARISM. Since Reagan “defense” budgets” have continuously increased. Even with the collapse of the Soviet Union, there was no “peace dividend” as the “cold war” ended.
Today, the U.S. has TWICE the military budget of ALL other countries on the planet COMBINED! This massive military buildup alone has been bankrupting the country.
The “wars on terrorism” are purely fraudulent and in fact U.S. invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. is actually a war for resources (oil), a war for profits (oil companies, military contractors, 250,000 contractors in Irag, etc., and a power for hegemonic power over the world economy.
Over 700 foreign bases around the world enforce this control, as treaties like NAFTA enforce the impoverishment of millions by forcing governments to privatize public services and utilities.
WAR IS WAGED PRIMARILY BECAUSE IT IS THE MAJOR SOURCE OF PROFIT TO MAJOR SECTORS OF THE RULING ECONOMIC ELITE.
2. THE BAILOUT OF COLLAPSED CAPITALISM: Trillions of dollars are being paid out to corrupt Wall street interests, banks, etc. The auto companies were “bailed out” but not the auto workers. Millions of working people are now in great need of extended unemployment funds, expanded Section 8 housing funds, expanded food stamps, etc.etc. BUT OF COURSE THERE IS NO MONEY FOR THE PEOPLE’ NEEDS, as this would take away funds needed by corporations and wealthy individuals to maintain profits and wealth.
3. NO JOBS UNDER DECLINING AND NOW COLLAPSED U.S. CAPITALISM. Since the 1970s income for working people has either stayed the same or actually declined. Why? U.S. capitalism cannot make sufficient profit in manufacturing (and other areas) so MILLIONS of jobs have moved to China and other countries.
4. THE LABOR MOVEMENT, by supporting Obama and the Democratic party, by forever being a “business partner” to corrupt capitalism, no longer supports the needs of working people but the so-called “Middle Class”. (teachers, “defense” workers, college educated.) But the Middle Class is under attack as millions of home-owners are now foreclosed under the latest speculative scam called the “housing bubble”. Middle Class jobs are under severe attack as the entire standard of living of all workers is being undermined.
5. EFCA will not be that important even if it does pass. All employers want to minimize wages and even eliminate health care benefits, overtime pay, vacation pay, safety standards, etc.
THE LABOR MOVEMENT TODAY, FOCUSING ENTIRELY ON TRYING TO ORGANIZE BUSINESSES TO GET A LABOR CONTRACT, DOES NOT HAVE ANY LEVERAGE.
6. Today, the most important benefits to working people must be secured by POLITICAL STRUGGLE, NOT JUST SIMPLE LABOR UNION STRUGGLE FOR A CONTRACT. THROUGH POLITICAL
STRUGGLE THE MAJOR GOALS OF ORGANIZED LABOR CAN BE WON:
* To secure and maintain SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE, SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH INSURANCE, ETC.
* To maintain OSHA, to maintain NLRB to serve the needs of working people, to establish national minimum wages, etc.etc.
7. THE CHANGES IN U.S. AND GLOBAL CAPITALISM NECESSITATES A NEW STRATEGY FOR ORGANIZED LABOR.
A. DUMP THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Only an estimated 10 percent of the Democrats are “pro-labor”. But the Democrats are now of a party of corporate agendas, corporate campaign contributions, etc. This includes OBAMA as ON EVERY MAJOR ISSUE SINCE OBAMA WAS ELECTED TO OFFICE, IS TO SUPPORT CORPORATE INTERESTS TO MAXIMIZE THEIR PROFIT, AT THE EXPENSE OF THE NEEDS OF WORKING PEOPLE.
B. Issue a call to organize a new political party to defend the economic interests of working people. This new party should accept no corporate funding and oppose the corporate agendas as mentioned above. The new party can organize millions of working people that are impossible to organize into traditional unions (economically impossible to organize small business workers for example).
C. Demand access to established Media (radio, tv, print, etc.)
for a voice for the interests of working people. THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PROGRAM ON NATIONAL MEDIA THAT SUPPORTS THE INTERESTS OF WORKING PEOPLE. Instead countless hours from Rush Limbaugh, Wall Street Journal (on PBS), forever drowns out any other perspective.
WILL ANY OF THESE ISSUES ABOVE BE PRESENTED OR DISCUSSED AT THE UPCOMING AFL-CIO CONVENTION IN PITTSBURGH IN SEPTEMBER??
During the presidential debates, then-candidate Obama was asked if he believes health care is a human right. He said “YES”!
To all the people who call themselves Christians and followers of Jesus Christ, please remember the lessons from Scripture that some of you have apparently forgotten. The Bible is loaded with examples of how Jesus healed the sick and frail.
No mention is made of healing only those with Aetna, Cigna, United Health, or Well Point insurance coverage. There is no mention of deductibles or co-payments. He didn’t treat only those who purchased Medicare Supplemental Coverage through the insurance company shill otherwise known as AARP. He never asked for proof of citizenship.
And, of course, there are The Beatitudes.
Every religious writing contains similar exhortations.
In the interest of full-disclosure, I acknowledge that I do not subscribe to any particular religion and neither do I attend a place of worship more than once per year. Part of my decision to refrain from participating is the glaring, hypocritical contradictions that exist amongst “believers” Most do not practice what they preach!
Some people may believe that health care is a privilege rather than a human right. They are, of course, free to do so. But to shroud such belief in religiosity is, in a word, blasphemous.
Human rights are borderless. Perhaps some union people do not believe that that is so. Here again, that is their choice. Such belief, however, is contrary to basic working class ideology. Just because a union member pays dues does not make that person a good union member. The holy scripture of the working class says, “an injury to one is an injury to all”, “to help any worker in distress”, “workers are workers the world around”, and “united we stand, divided we fall”. Those who ignore those fundamental tenets are not practicing working class ideology. Perhaps that is one reason why union density in the U.S. has fallen from 37% down to 12% (7% in the private sector). Too many workers have abandoned the very principles that their courageous forbearers fought and died for. If it were not for those early pioneers, today’s “half-measure union members” wouldn’t have a pot to squat over nor a window to throw it out.
The AFL-CIO and its Change to Win, SEIU, MoveOn, True Majority, HCAN cohorts are advocating less than half-measure health care “reform”. That is symptomatic of pie card officialdom who lack true working class consciousness. How can they lead in a progressive fashion if they lack the credentials to do so?
The answer to our nation’s health care crisis is HR 676, single payer national health care insurance. It would cover everyone for everything, there would be no deductibles or co-payments, people would be free to choose any doctors they want, anytime and anywhere they want them! HR 676 would actually cost less than the $2.4 trillion that will be spent on the pursuit of health care this year, and the working class (we’re 90% of America) would save about 75% of what we now spend on health insurance premiums and other out of pocket expenses. Talk about a stimulus! My daughter, as an example, would save over $9000 per year! She and her family earn a bit more than the median household income for a family of four in the U.S. They pay $12,000 annually for health care! There are tens of millions of families just like hers. And what would they do with the extra money? Maybe they’d get the new roof they need. That would put a couple of [union] roofers to work. They, in turn, would take their earnings and buy the new pair of [union made] boots they need. The [union] boot salesperson would go out to dinner. The [union] cook or server would be able to save up enough money to take a well-deserved vacation and stay in a nice [union] hotel. And the wheel would go round, round, round.
Don’t people get it? The so-called “reform” bills should be called the “P.T. Barnum” bills. Those who are supporting those half-measures are proof that ”there’s a sucker born every minute”.
Union dues payers who oppose real reform for everyone have lost their way. They slime the names of the heroes and heroines of yore.
And the “Christians”? They are not practicing what they preach. And by repeating the lies being put out by the Liberty Counsel and other right-wing apologists for the medical-profits industry, they are culpable for lies and deceptions. They need to remember, they are followers of Christ, not Pinocchio.
Get ready to march on Washington, D.C.! Be prepared to turn off your machines and join the struggle! And if pie cards get in the way, move them aside!
The AFL-CIO Convention will take place in Pittsburg from September 13 – 17. Make sure your delegates are prepared to fight for single payer. (The pie cards will speak against it). If your delegates lack backbone, instruct them! (That way they can say they were given their marching orders by their ranks and file.)
The Democrats won’t do the right thing unless forced! The Republicans won’t do the right thing. It is up to us! Do your part! We must demand health care justice. We must demand single payer. We must demand HR 676!
Well, This dose not go in Hemet California where the Hospital has been decertified. Also the Riverside County District Attorney has advised all doctors to deny Aetna Cobra claims as it is an HMO. Yes, selective health care is now being practiced in California.
I might add that the “Aisles of SMILES” is being done due to selective healthcare. Why are doctors telling patients to go home and die; Look for the money and it is surely not with an HMO.
My concern is that, at 57 years of age, after finally landing a job with employer provided medical and dental benefits, these benefits will be either be eliminated or taxed so that I won’t be able to afford the premiums and the co-pays. After working in the service industry most of my adult life, I have had few, if any, medical benefits or insurance. I plan to work until age 70 or fall down dead on the job! All this because working for minimum wage, never allowed any savings or medical & dental care. Now that I have it, I don’t want to lose it.
It’s amazing, the number of people who believe the “right wing rant.” Rush Limbaugh mobilizes his minions with one key word, socialism!
The fact is, it’s simply a benefit. A very necessary benefit, a need and not a want. At some point, all will need health care.
The other simple fact is that the job market today is extremely fragile and regardless of who you work for, no ones job is completely secure. Lose your job and you lose your health care benefits as simple as that, and millions already have. To replace those benefits may well cost over a thousand dollars a month to cover a family and the costs are continually rising.
Are you over the age of fifty or have had previous health care problems? You may be not be able to get insurance. These problems are the facts.
Thinking people should realize that the Insurance companies are behind the “tea party” because they stand to lose profits if health care reform would create competition and thus, lower costs. I always thought free market people believed in free competition? – Hmmm.
Rich – Since you’ve brought Christ in to this, I have one simple question: Where does it say that government must be the vehicle of compassion to insure healthcare for everyone (again, many in that 45 million figure constantly bandied around who are young and don’t want it, and also illegal aliens)?
In this country, we give proportionately much bigger amounts as individuals to charity than anyone else. (And I’m not saying we give too much.) Shoot, why do anything ourselves? Let’s send government all our money and let it do all of it. I mean it – why stop with healthcare!? Since they are so good at everything . . . where does it end?
That’s the point. You may not see this as socialism, but where does it start? I believe it started long ago in this country, and that Marx was probably right – we will have creeping socialism until it is full-blown communism. Where does it end? Healthcare is a very, very personal thing, and I don’t want this huge bureaucracy in my body.
And again, I noticed no one addressed a much simpler measure we could have to bring down costs – tort reform. What about that being on the table too?
I tell you, I think the issue now is too little competition in the system, too much government regulation, and too little personal accountability (this shows my Libertarian side). Things like these will always tend to drive prices up – until we scream to our representatives, “Please help us!” to which they are only too obliged to “help.” Hold on to your wallets!
Right on the left
Where does it say that government isn’t the vehicle? Lady Liberty holds scales in one hand. When they get too far out of whack the sword in her other hand is to be used to help balance them. The “sword” is symbolic of the ability of government to correct injustices. “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”, most certainly includes health care justice. Health care preserves life.
The number of children under the age of 18 who are uninsured increases at the rate of about 10% per year. And you’re suggesting that is because they “don’t want it”?
You forever use derogatory terms when describing undocumented workers. That’s your choice. But to then attribute the high number of uninsured to the number of undocumented workers in the U.S. ignores one all important fact: In 1993 (prior to NAFTA) about 41 million people were uninsured. In 1993 there were 9 million fewer undocumented workers than there are today. Your numbers do not add up. In addition, there has been an increase of uninsured citizens. There is nobody to blame except corporate America for moving our jobs offshore. When jobs get shipped offshore, health care gets terminated. Undocumented workers don’t move U.S. jobs offshore, “free market” capitalism does!
I do not know your age. I am 68. I am on Medicare. I do not know what I’d do without. That is true for 46 million additional Medicare participants. Medicare is single payer health care. It is publicly-funded, privately delivered health care. My Medicare card allows me to get health care anywhere in the U.S. And medical decisions are made by me and my doctors. Bean counters representing for-profit insurers are not allowed to stick their noses into my health care! Please spare me the anecdotal stories about how Medicare doesn’t work. Those of us on Medicare are the most satisfied users of health care in the U.S. Did I mention that Medicare is a “government-run” program? It pays the bills for the treatment I get from any doctor I choose! That’s “government run” single payer. We love it! Everyone should have no less than what we have!
I will not quibble with your assertion that we give more to charity than do other countries. But consider this: That’s because there is a need to do so! Other countries have health care for all. (Been there, done that while in Italy. Their health care is free, even to “non-citizens”.)
Socialism? C’mon. Such utterances are prime examples of why we need national health care. With national health care we the people would be able to receive preventive care and we’d learn about what symptoms to watch for. That education would provide people the wherewithal to distinguish rheumatism from socialism. By the way, we already have socialism. It’s corporate socialism. Huge conglomerates receive hundreds of billions of dollars in government subsidies and handouts. And where does it go? Right into the bank vaults of preferred stockholders.
Prior to Medicare private insurers had 100% of the market. And 50% of all seniors lacked any medical coverage! Thank God for government intervention! Today, virtually everyone over 65 is insured by Medicare. It wasn’t the “free market” that solved the problem. There was all the competition one could ask for, yet half of all seniors were overlooked by “free marketers”.
I was raised in a working class household in a working class neighborhood. Neighbors looked out for other neighbors. That spirit of unity (which gives rise to word “United”, as in “United States of America”, began to disappear at the beginning of the Reagan era. The spirit of cooperation was replaced with “I. me, and mine”. America got stampeded by a loud clap of greed!
I preferred a time when we willingly acknowledged that each of us are our brothers’ (and sisters’) keeper. That includes health care for all!
Lastly, Tort Reform is a drop in the ocean argument. Litigation costs are 0.018% of health care costs. If subtracted from the $2.4 trillion that will be spent on health care in the U.S. in 2009, we’d still spend $2.3568 trillion. And please note, contrary to the bleatings of America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) very few medical lawsuits are frivolous.
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Rich – We will probably never convince each other of anything except perhaps a minor point or two. I have lots of things I could say about points you made, but it’s just too much to convey here . . . my comrade, I believe it largely futile. For you see, we each align ourselves with a different vision (as per Thomas Sowell’s seminal book, “A Conflict of Visions.”) I align with the “Constrained” vision, and you with the “Utopian” (Sowell calls this the “Unconstrained”) vision. We just approach these kinds of things from these two consuming paradigms.
I would rather trust free markets and a business solution – you would rather trust big government to do it. One scares the bejeepers more outa you, the other more outa me.
To use a liberal variation of Winston Churchill’s famous quote: “The [free market] is the worst form of [economic exchange] except for all the others that have been tried.”
Rich: One thing I will respond to specifically from your message – tort reform. I have no idea where you get your figures from (0.018%), but they don’t line up at all with what I’ve seen. But even if it is as small as you say, which I seriously doubt, why isn’t it on the table too? This healthcare thing is supposed to be comprehensive, right? Shoot mon, we keep hearing there’s 1,200 pages in this bill, so shouldn’t it contain something this obvious!?
Bottom line – There are numerous little things that could be done that would add up to significant savings, without the monsterous (one trillion $$ in ten years and counting) government option.